In this episode of Business Casual, hosts John Byrne and Maria Wich Vila, along with guest Matt Symonds, are guiding MBA applicants through crucial pre-deadline strategies. They cover the essentials of application forms, strategic planning, and managing recommenders to avoid common pitfalls as major deadlines approach for schools like Harvard, Wharton, and Duke. The discussion offers a wealth of practical advice for prospective students to enhance their applications, ensuring every element—from essays to data forms—reflects their best selves. 

This episode is a must-listen for anyone navigating the competitive MBA admissions process, packed with expert tips for a successful application submission.

Episode Transcript

[00:00:04.360] – John

Well, hello, everyone. This is John Byrne with Poets and Quants. Welcome to our weekly podcast, Business Casual. We have a special guest today, standing in for Caroline, it’s Matt Simons, an old pal and friend who does our Center Court Conferences with me. And in fact, we have one coming up next week, our Executive MBA Center Court. If you are in the market for an EMBA, as we call them, you want to tune in, that’s going to happen next week. You can come to the site and register for that conference. Of course, we have Maria Wich Vila here who is the founder of Applicant Lab. Just so you know, Matt, of course, is the co founder of Fortuna Admissions, where Caroline also works. We are really little more than a month away from some of the big deadlines in round one for MBA applicants. We are going to see them topple like dominoes starting on September 4th, when Harvard, Wharton, and Duke have deadlines. September 5th is a deadline for UVA, Virginia, and Notre Dame. On the 6th, you have NYU Stern, London Business School. On the 9th, you have Michigan, Then Georgetown on the 10th.

[00:01:33.340] – John

Here’s a big one, Stanford, Yale, and INSEAD. On the 11th, it’s Kellogg, and so it goes. What we want to do with those deadlines looming is talk a little bit about what you should be doing. What’s the checklist of things you need to check off to put your best foot forward in round one? We’re going to go to Maria first because she’s been chomping at the bit to answer that question.

[00:02:01.110] – Maria

Can you see me? You can’t see me on the podcast, but I assure you that the chomping and champing and all kinds of things are happening. Yeah, absolutely. My very first tip is going to be one of the most boring ones. My first tip is, at this point, if you haven’t already, really go through the application forms in detail. The reason I say this is that when you first log into the application, it’s very tempting. It’s human nature just to skim it and to say, Oh, yeah, it’s my name and my address. Okay, yeah, I’ll do this the day before. It’s no big deal. However, these MBA application forms can be very tricky. There are many of them that have a ton of tiny little text boxes throughout. For example, you might suddenly encounter a box that says something like, What’s the biggest challenge you overcame at this job? Or, Describe your greatest accomplishments. Or, Summarize your responsibilities. If you’re not prepared to have answers for that, and not only Are the questions phrased slightly differently from school to school? The questions themselves are slightly different from school to school. But even things like the character count cut off.

[00:03:07.640] – Maria

So one school might give you 100 characters, another school might give you 250 characters. Things like this where if you get a little overconfident because you say, Well, yeah. I took a quick skim at the form, and it seems like a pretty no big deal. You can really find yourself stuck on the day of the deadline with a lot of questions and a lot of last minute panic. Another thing that occurred to me, for example, is the salary number. So some schools will say, Well, what’s your annualized salary? Let’s say you had a summer internship, if we were to take what you made per month in that internship and annualize it, what would your salary be versus what did you make over the course of the summer? There’s so many little minutiae. It’s the opposite of the common app for undergraduate admissions. Really do not discredit how much work you might have to put into that. I also find that working on the forms could be a good palate cleanser mentally. If you’ve really been stressing out over an essay draft and you’ve just been going in circles on it, take a little break, jump into the form.

[00:04:01.230] – Maria

It’s still productive. It’s a productive use of your time, but it is a bit of a mental break.

[00:04:05.150] – John

Yeah, all good advice. Matt, what would you add to that?

[00:04:08.730] – Matt

Well, I guess in the current context, Olympic committees remind us every four years of how much you can do in the last five weeks. Also, perhaps that we’re focusing on the finish line and not the start line of 100 or 400 meter dash. Maria is absolutely right. Those application forms are a gold mine of information. Everything has a role in these applications. I would say, as we’re, what, 40, 45 days away from those deadlines, you will have a shortlist of schools, and you might be tempted to say, well, if Stanford isn’t until nearly a week later than the Harvard or the Duke Fuqua applications, I’ll get to that later. Look holistically at your target list of schools because they’re prompting you, they’re urging you for the level of self-reflection that will really then catch the eye of the admissions committee. So make a plan, but make a plan and stick to the plan. Even as you think about what does work look like in the next four or five weeks, what are those other personal commitments? You’ve got those Taylor Swift concert tickets and you’ve been waiting for weeks. Well, that’s going to take up a couple of days to get to wherever she’s playing next.

[00:05:22.170] – Matt

Some of you might still have the shadow of the standardized test, the GMAT or the GRE. And so there are all of these pieces of a puzzle, which we’re going to dive into during the recording. But making that plan, there is still time for meaningful outreach. Harvard Business School does not need you to turn these applications into a popularity contest. You do not need to talk to 37 Wharton MBAs before you apply. But perhaps a conversation with a second-year student who is the President of the EdTech Club or the Health Care Club, or one of the fund clubs that they have that would be meaningful for your business school experience, there’s still plenty of time. I know that we’re going to jump into recommenders, keeping them on track, but those big details, and as Maria said, not ignoring any of those smaller details that begin with the application form.

[00:06:15.000] – John

It’s true. I mean, there are a lot of moving parts when you apply to a highly selected business school. Matt, you mentioned one of them, which can often lead to some troubles later down the road, cultivating your recommenders and them through what they need to do to help you put your best foot forward. Maria, what’s your basic advice right now for nurturing that recommendation or two that many business goals require?

[00:06:46.490] – Maria

Well, I advise, and I think many in our field advise that, for example, at this point in the game, your recommender should already know that they are your recommenders, and they should hopefully already be working on their recommendations. One thing that a lot of us advise is, don’t just say to your recommender, Hey, I’m applying to business school. Are you on my side? Cool. I’ll send you the link to the recommendation form. It’s really a good idea to have, by this point in the game, already sat down with them, provided them with a list of, Okay, here’s some of the questions you might be asked about me. Obviously, you can say whatever you’d like. However, just to remind you, if you’re asked about how I Excel versus my peers, just a reminder, a year ago, remember that time that I did that really great thing and I to convince the client to do whatever, that can be more under your control. You can’t control exactly what they say, but you can try to guide them by reminding them of not only what your greatest hits have been, but which aspect or which elements of those hits have happened.

[00:07:43.780] – Maria

For example, this is particularly for people who have very technical jobs, your recommender might want to focus on, wow, that algorithm that that person coded was flawless and the code had 0.0% error rate. That’s not the thing that an MBA admissions committee cares about so much. They’re going to care more about That’s what your interpersonal leadership skills. Hopefully, you’ve already sat down with them at this point and started to guide them through that process. At this point now, with about a month left to go, now is the time to very politely check in, see how things are going Are you working? Have you submitted it yet? Just like how Matt brought up, thinking about your own life and work and outside of work commitments over the next month, think about your recommender’s outside of work commitments as well. Your recommender might be taking the month of August off if They’re in Europe. They have a civilized vacation schedule over there. If your recommender is going to go scuba diving in Fiji on September third, and your deadline is September fourth, and they’re not ready in time, that could set your application back. Some schools will not allow late recommendations.

[00:08:50.590] – Maria

Some schools are a little more lenient about it. But so really do think about, is my recommender going to be ready? I actually sometimes tell people, maybe tell your recommender that the deadline is a couple of days sooner than it is, or at least say, Okay, it says that the deadline is September fifth, but I would really love for you to have this in by August 27th. Because I’ve had stories of, Oh, my recommender is on his honeymoon, and, Oops, he’s literally in Fiji. So do be keeping on top of them. Because, like I like to say, you can always force yourself to pull an all-nighter the night before an application if you have to, but you cannot force your to pull an all-nighter on your behalf. So respond accordingly.

[00:09:34.800] – John

So true. If you haven’t already nudged your recommender, you should be nudging him or her now. What’s a gentlest way to nudge a recommender at this point, Matt?

[00:09:47.880] – Matt

Well, everything that Maria described is where we would like to be in the process. But of course, some people have been procrastinating or still that anxiety of they know that their boss or their direct supervisor is the right person to ask, but they fear how they might respond. This is probably your last chance to think deeply about, have I chosen the right people? Supportive, enthusiastic. And the nudging then becomes a lot easier when those things are on board. But if you’re waking up at 2:30 in the morning saying, We haven’t really had a good conversation about this, there is, I think, at this point, one final check. Do you have the right people in mind? What Maria was describing, with them, provide them with some key talking points that they will then be able to illustrate at the color, the depth that goes so much beyond the bullet points on your resume. They might have teams of 30, 40, 50 people, and that project from 12 months ago that is so clear in your mind. So there’s a dialog. Of course, you’ve been incredibly courteous and thoughtful when you first approach them, getting them on board for that enthusiasm and support.

[00:10:56.210] – Matt

But I think checking in with them, as Maria said, we’re not harassing not focusing anybody on this, but just making sure that they’ve got a timetable, that they’re aware of it. Other commitments have been pushed aside. Fiji sounds great at this time of year, but make sure that you’ve given them a summary of achievements and embedded in that the outcomes and the role that you played. There’s a team, no doubt, in many of all of those. But what was your role? What was your impact? And really helping them to focus on those different criteria.

[00:11:26.420] – John

Now, Matt, what about the simple thing of having someone else look over your shoulder and read your essays and even your overall application? Isn’t that like a no-brainer?

[00:11:39.000] – Matt

You’d think. We all make up these decisions with a little bit of guidance. I think there are different forms and levels of guidance that are people that are very close to us. You mentioned Fouqua that has one of the first round one deadlines and this wonderful question that they ask about 25 random things. Now, you could probably come up with a flurry of ideas, but I think in sharing with a partner, someone very close to you, their ability to, Hey, is it just through modesty? I can’t believe that you mentioned this, or I’ve always loved this about you. There’s playfulness in the application, too. There’s a level of vulnerability, and sometimes those individuals can help to bring that out. I think there’s also the idea of candidates that get lost in, What does Stanford want to hear? What am I supposed to say to Columbia? And someone that step back from this whole process can hold up a mirror and really help you to think about your personal story, the true authenticity of you and how your voice is captured. Very often we see candidates in the latter stages, particularly those that are working at McKinsey, Bain, BCG, some of the big banks, they’re surrounded by MBAs.

[00:12:50.240] – Matt

It’s tempting, of course, to get their input, and they feel that they should make some contribution. And suddenly you’re at this stage in the final moments of the final weeks of applying to business school, and you’re doing an application by committee, which can be perilous. When everybody says, Well, I feel that you should emphasize this area of leadership, or, How about talking about innovation over here? I want to hear about your analytical mindset, and it can paralyze you. So keep the list short of expert advice or very personal advice. I think there’s a powerful combination that you can achieve with both of them, but definitely help someone. The Perhaps there’s even someone close to you that will help you with the minutiae, just making sure that spelling and grammar… And sorry, why does this say NYU? I thought you were applying to Columbia. Again, lost in the woods with all of this, and they can just pick your head up and really help you both for that honesty, that authenticity, but also some of those details.

[00:13:53.300] – John

And Matt, that is actually a mistake that admission officials often say is one of the big pet pews in the business. The cut and paster who tells Columbia that they really want to go to NYU Stern and vice versa. That actually happens a lot more often than people think, which is why it’s important to have another set of eyes or two on your application. Now, how do you know you’re putting your best foot forward when you do your application? What level of comfort should you be feeling before you actually push the Submit button? If you’re not ready by round one, what do you sacrifice by holding back, polishing a little bit more, thinking about this a little more deeply, and applying in round two? Maria?

[00:14:42.960] – Maria

Well, the devil’s really in the details with the answer to that question in terms of how do I decide if I push to round two or not. I think you are ready to submit when you… First of all, ideally, if you’re not an ultra super procrastinator, If you take a day or two off from all of the admissions, all of the applications, do something fun, go to that Taylor Swift concert, and then come back with a fresh set of eyes, print out the PDF, for example, of the application form, and look at it carefully and ask not only for errors and accuracy, but also ask yourself, Okay, what’s the overall holistic picture that this application is giving of me? Because first of all, because of all of these little text boxes plus the essays together, we tend to work on them separately. Now that I’m looking at all of them together is the overall picture of who I am as a candidate coming across, is my authentic voice coming across, as Matt referred to. I think that there is often an understandable but erroneous assumption that my essay, if I am applying to an institution of higher learning, I must have a bunch of multisyllabic words to impress them.

[00:15:49.380] – Maria

But in fact, all that does is just make it hard to read and risks making you seem a little unlikable. Ask yourself, does this sound like me? I do think that there’s a little too much. For some candidates, they feel that the polished part of it is more important than it actually is. If you’re stressing out about… If you’re saying to yourself, Wow, I actually don’t know why I want to go to this school, that’s one thing. But if you’re saying, Oh, I’m not sure if I should have a semicolon here or a dash or a semicolon or semicolon or a dash, at that point, just hit submit. It’s going to be fine. The admissions officer say it’s a holistic process. It’s a holistic process. We all We are very frustrated and we roll our eyes at it, but it really is a holistic process. As a result of that, it’s the substance in your application that’s going to make the difference more than if you misuse a semicolon. At a certain point, think to yourself, it’s about the quality of this and the substance, and don’t worry about, quote, unquote, polishing it so much that then you miss the deadline because all else being equal, earlier is always better.

[00:16:55.590] – John

I wonder what you think about Harvard. In Particularly because the deadlines for the application went up three weeks later than they normally do. Then it took another three plus weeks to actually get their new essay questions. Then we discovered after all that and those delays, which almost amount to two months, we discovered that if you submit a GMAT from the new Focus Edition, you will actually have to take an additional writing assessment test. I wonder How many people that’s going to convince to hold back and apply in round 2? And round 1 apps at the Harvard Business School this year may be down because of the delays and the requirement to do an additional test. Matt, what do you think?

[00:17:48.930] – Matt

Well, I think whether it’s the admissions office in Boston or Philadelphia or Palo Alto, typically from one year to the next, they’ll sit down as the start of the admissions cycle begins and remind themselves that from one year to the next, they would look to admit 49, 50% of the class in round one, aware that the applicants in round two are just as talented, they’re just as dedicated, they’re just as qualified, and to not fill all of the places. They break it down even into buckets. The buckets are the consultants and the bankers and the private equity and the Olympians and others. So they’re looking across the entire year. I think that this year is a a little unusual. If we go back eight years when Trump was running for the White House, there was a certain naiveté among the business schools that they quickly woke up to a reality, stem designation now for everybody. And they might be thinking there are outcomes in November that could very well affect the application volumes in round two. If Trump gets back in, we saw the impact that it had on international applications in the four-year period that he was in the White House.

[00:18:59.350] – Matt

So that might be in the back of their minds. But nevertheless, I think for the candidate themselves, this idea of being the best you, and if that means that there’s some project that really comes to fruition in Q4. Late October and something launches that really brings together eight months, twelve months of work, well, think long and hard about how powerful it would be to share that application. It could be an extra 20 points that you’re looking for on a standardized test. To apply in round one, simply to meet that deadline and think that you’re in the first group, I think can really deserve a lot of candidates. So as we’ve said, part of this review is also a very honest review. You said, How do you know when you’re ready? When have you really put together an application that captures the real you? I would ask yourselves, Have I enjoyed this? Was it like dragging or pulling and going to the dentists? Or did I really step back this rare opportunity that you have when you apply to business school to think about who you are, think about what you want? Some of the schools ask that explicitly.

[00:20:13.550] – Matt

That’s a gift to be able to step back and have that introspection. So did you enjoy it? If you did, the chances are it will be reflected in the great materials that you’ve put together.

[00:20:25.810] – John

Yes, absolutely. Maria, any last bits of advice?

[00:20:30.540] – Maria

I think don’t let the perfect be the enemy of the good. So definitely apply with your strongest foot forward, but don’t be so obsessed with it having to. It has to be perfect. My score has to be perfect. My essay has to be perfect. Everything has to be perfect. And if it doesn’t, I’m just going to spiral and be paralyzed with anxiety. Just get it in there. I understand it. It’s human nature, but at a certain point, if you’re ready to hit submit, don’t say, Well, I don’t know if I’m right. Just go ahead and do it. Unless, as Matt said, you know in your tummy, if you retake that GMAT, you’re going to get a higher score, or you know that there’s this amazing project that if you just wait a month, you’ll be able to fill your essays with this amazing project. Great. But otherwise, don’t let the enemy be the perfect of the good and just… Maybe on a far more pragmatic level, maybe try to apply to a few more schools than you originally meant to, if not in round one, then in round two, just because this is such a competitive process.

[00:21:25.850] – Maria

There’s so much uncertainty. Even in a normal There’s uncertainty now. There’s the election, as Matt pointed out. There’s so much uncertainty all the time. Just maybe also think about if you’re one of the few people who’s actually ahead of the game and you’re like, Oh, actually, I submitted everything. I have a little extra time. Maybe apply to a couple of extra schools just to spread out your risk.

[00:21:46.570] – John

Don’t wait to the last minute. Five minutes before the actual deadline for Harvard at noon Eastern Standard Time on September fourth, you don’t want to push the button five minutes for. When should you, in fact, push the button?

[00:22:04.490] – Matt

Matt? I’ve been in this industry so long, I can remember when UPS and FedEx would make out like bandids. It was that next day or four-hour delivery to get it to do your content. No, you’re Absolutely right. Anyone that’s running five minutes before a 5:00 PM East Coast deadline, there’s a reason, perhaps, why they’re in that much of a state. So submitting early, that doesn’t mean to say that it should be weeks and weeks ahead of time. But again, I think you reach a point where everything that you’ve pulled together and intrinsically, Maria makes the great point about the pursuit of the perfect, which can really undo you. I think admissions officers are in this to admit people. They end up rejecting some of the top schools many more than they would admit, but they actually feel quite sad about that. They give everybody the time, and they’re curious people. So make them curious. There are word limits, and people try to fight with them and say, I want to squeeze in one more thing, and can I just add this? And maybe they end up repeating themselves in different parts of the application. Have the self-confidence that less can be more.

[00:23:11.830] – Matt

Make them curious to want to meet you because that’s the next step that follows all of this submitting an application is to then secure an interview. There might be some really engaging part of your story that would be fantastic for the interview. Save it. Don’t try to shoe-warn it into paragraph nine and overfeed this. Make them really just want to meet you in the next stage of interview.

[00:23:35.460] – John

Well, there you have it. There’s our checklist. Check off each of these boxes, and you will, in fact, put your best foot forward. I want to thank Matt and Maria, of course, for their great advice. I want to remind everyone that on July 30th, we have a full day of center-court panels for a would-be executive MBA candidate We’re going to be talking to alumni of some of the best executive MBA programs in the world who will talk about how the degree can help advance your career. I think you’re going to find a lot of great information. In fact, even if you’re not in the market for an executive MBA, I think a lot of the advice and a lot of the stories that will be told during the center-court event will be applicable for full-time MBAs as well. So thanks again for listening. This is John Byrne with Poets and Quants.