In this episode of Business Casual, the hosts delve into the dynamic realm of online MBA programs, focusing on the latest rankings where the University of Texas at Dallas emerges as the top institution for the first time, followed closely by Michigan and Indiana University. They unpack insights from an extensive survey of recent graduates, confronting common myths about online education—like limited networking opportunities and the challenges of career switching.

Joined by Christie, the architect of the online MBA ranking, the hosts explore compelling alumni testimonials of significant career shifts and impressive career outcomes. They highlight the considerable career advancements and salary increases that many graduates achieve, effectively dispelling doubts about the value of online education.

Episode Transcript

[00:00:04.390] – John

Well, hello everyone. This is John Byrne with Poets and Quants. Welcome to Business Casual, our weekly podcast. We’re going to talk about online MBA programs, and frankly, online education overall. We just completed our annual review of online MBA programs, which results in the ranking this year for the first time, UT, Dallas, US is number one. We’ll find out why. Michigan is number two. Three, Indiana University, which is often a number one player. Actually, they tied with Michigan for second place. University of Washington and Rice University round out the top five. Then we have a USC, Carnegie Mellon, Jack Welch Management Institute, Hofstra, and the University of Florida in 10th place. But what always intrigues me about this project is the fact that we survey thousands of recent graduates of online MBA programs. It’s the most extensive survey of these graduates anywhere in the world. This year, we had a 17% response rate, which amounts to something like, I think it’s 1,300 people responded. You really get a sense for what they got out of these programs. There are a lot of myths about online education education. One myth is, well, you really won’t get to know or bond with your fellow students or the faculty.

[00:01:37.560] – John

Another myth is that it’s going to limit, if not make impossible, a career transition outside of what you already do.Our survey work shows that actually there’s a different story to that. Now, joining Maria and Caroline with me today is the architect of our online MBA ranking, Christie, who’s a member of our staff. Welcome.

[00:02:03.860] – Christie

Well, thanks for having me. Other than who’s number three and who’s number 10, let’s get into the results. What surprises you about the responses that graduates have reflecting back on their online education?

[00:02:20.930] – Christie

Well, I think the biggest surprise for me since I started, really, this is my second year of managing the ranking and really diving through the results and looking at what the alumni say about the programs. And we are talking about the top programs in the United States. As a former online MBA student myself, who took a program that wasn’t quite up to this tier. The surprising part to me is throughout any of the 57 schools that we ranked, the alumni really reported having a great ability to make connections. And that is one thing I think that is a big misconception of the top programs these days. They think that you’re sitting at your computer, you’re locking yourself away late at night, doing it when you can. But for the students who want to get involved and meet their classmates, it’s just been changing ever since, I think maybe the pandemic really accelerated this, but the ability to make connections with both your classmates, your professors, alumni for that career progression is really available if you want to partake in it.

[00:03:36.460] – John

Yeah. I also think the career outcomes can be somewhat surprising because a number of people actually don’t use a degree merely to enhance their trajectory inside the company they’re already employed at, but also use it to change their careers. That always surprises me because obviously in an online program, there are no internships. There are no recruiters who come to campus to interview because there’s no campus generally. And online students tend not to have many of the opportunities that in-person MBA students have. And I’m talking about companies that come and do coffee hours or drinks with students who do interviews right on campus. In other words, the courtship that occurs between employers and students doesn’t really exist in the online world. And yet a surprising number of them are able to leverage this degree and its experience to actually change what they’ve done in the past, right?

[00:04:37.460] – Christie

Yeah, absolutely. According to the alumni on the very top of these programs, they’re utilizing the same career services as the full-time MBA program. They are getting together with alumni to make connections and find new opportunities. In fact, some of the questions that we ask the alumni on the survey, and by the way, we reached out to more than 7,800 alumni of these 57 ranked schools, and we got back just around 1,300 with a 17% response rate. We feel like we have a good collection of a measurement of how alumni really view these programs. But a couple of the questions that we ask as a part of the survey is, were you able to change industries? Did your job function Did you change employers? And at some of the top schools on this, Bryant University, 60 % of its alumni actually changed industries, and they attributed that to the online MBA program. Again, 80% of Bryant online MBA alumni reported that they had also changed job functions. If it’s not just a way to advance in your own organization is a lot of times the perception. It really can help people pivot if that’s what they want to do.

[00:06:09.360] – John

The other interesting thing looking at the list is that the four top programs are all at public universities. I don’t know what to make of that. What do you make of that, Christie?

[00:06:20.180] – Christie

I think it’s an ROI question. Those kinds of universities usually have a pretty comparable price tag compared to some of the Ivy Leagues, especially for what you’re getting out of the program these days. University of Texas, Dallas, which is the number one, the alumni this year really told us that if they wanted to go on an emersion trip to Japan or do consulting projects, much like you would find in a full-time MBA, they were able to take electives to do that. They were able to get this immersive experience, if that’s what they wanted while maintaining their current jobs and their family obligations and not having those kinds of astronomical price tags that you might find in a full-time MBA, particularly at those private institutions. I think those public universities, their mission is to provide education at a more affordable price, and I think that reflects that.

[00:07:29.280] – John

Now, Maria, Christie and Caroline are both graduates of full-time residential, meaning in-person MBA programs. Caroline, I wonder what you make of the online MBA world.

[00:07:40.470] – Caroline

I’m very impressed with the data that you’ve gathered here. It’s very surprising to me, actually, the extent to which, particularly as you highlight Christie, the extent to which people are achieving career change, because my preconception was that it was more about career progression and acceleration rather than switching careers, because we know how challenging that is even for full-time MBA students often to switch careers. So that’s wonderful. I think that there’s a lot to be said with these programs for the ability, if you can juggle your work with study, whether that is in an online program or also we see this with executive MBA programs, that the ability to then apply the learning directly really helps with the learning process and helps you absorb what you learn in the classroom and apply it and just retain that information often more effectively, frankly, than in a full-time MBA program. With a full-time program, you’re learning so much, you’re getting through so much material. And of course, you are doing a lot of teamwork and projects and so on to help you apply that knowledge. But still, I think that there is an advantage in some ways for these different format programs where where you are juggling the study and your work, that if you can apply it, take it back to your workplace, use that learning, then it just ingraines some of the key points and helps you to retain that much more effectively I think, in many ways than you can get on a full-time program.

[00:09:18.970] – Caroline

And that comes across clearly in the surveys that you shared here.

[00:09:23.910] – John

And impressed your boss, probably, because you’re making a contribution that perhaps otherwise might not be able to make, being able to apply what you learn immediately on the job. You can even bring your own professional challenges to the program and get help with your classmates and faculty members, which is free consulting help, really, in an online or any part-time program. Maria, what’s your take on all this?

[00:09:52.270] – Maria

Similar to Caroline, I was super impressed, shocked in a positive way with many of these results. I think in particular, one of the ones that really caught my eye was the question, did your salary increase as a result of the online MBA program? The reason I like this question is because it’s quantifiable. Many of these other questions, obviously in surveys, whenever we’re talking about any ranking, we often bemoan the fact that some of these more qualitative questions, Well, how good were your professors? Well, I don’t know. I guess they were good, but how do I compare them? But something like a salary increase now, that’s a real number that we can absolutely sink our teeth into. The fact that so many of these programs had Wake Forest, 83%, Rice, 82%, that’s a huge percentage of these students attributing a salary increase to the program that they did. That’s really where the rubber hits the road, so to speak. I think that there’s so much great data to dig into here, but that was the one statistic that really was an eye opener for me.

[00:10:58.030] – John

Yeah, true. Many of these well, first off, they’re all cheaper than a full-time program because you don’t have the opportunity costs of quitting your job and losing that paycheck. That’s number one. But even after that, they tend to be priced below full-time residential programs. You also don’t have to relocate yourself. Even in a hybrid program where you’re expected to go and do an in-person emersion here or there, that’s hardly like relocating yourself a country or a nation. In some cases, the fees are so low that these schools have drawn a lot of international students, which also means you have a pretty diverse class of students bringing lots of different experiences into those classes. Now, Christie, why UT Dallas? How did they manage to unseat Indiana Kelly and some other schools that have been at the top of their ranking over the years?

[00:11:59.810] – Christie

Well, I think that one thing that people should remember when they’re looking at these programs is in terms of the top three, it’s very close. We’re slicing and dicing my new data points to try to come up with a list. But they were very strong on their career outcomes, which were reported by the alumni. Again, the alumni reported really promotion and salary increases, and also not as strong as some of the schools, but a very good track record of being able to change careers. They’re, in terms of the career, very ingrained in that Texas economy. The program really tries to work with employers on training the online MBAs for what the employers need. And I think that shows up in those career outcome questions that the students are looking for. They also were, I think, number three in the academic experience. That’s how the alumni rated things like their professors, being able to make connections, and just the overall feel of how the program went. They’ve been hovering around the top. They were number three last year. I think it was just their year. The way our ranking works is how alumni feel year to year can really influence how when you’re talking about some really good programs, that alumni survey can really tip the scale.

[00:13:47.140] – John

Yeah, and I think you’re right to say we’re slicing the baloney very thin here because let’s face it, okay, so Texas has, based on an index, has a score of 100, but then Michigan and Indiana, right behind it, are 96.3 each.

[00:14:05.940] – Christie

It was very close this year for those top three.

[00:14:10.590] – John

Yeah. What I like about what we do here is we’re showing you the result so you can more smartly navigate the ranking because after all, there is really no statistical difference among those, probably the top four school because University Washington has a score of 95.3. So yes, we want to create a list because everyone wants a list. But the truth is you look at those index scores and you know there’s really no substantial difference among those schools. So I think that’s a really helpful data point for people who are looking at which school to attend and when to attend. I mean, the other interesting issue about online MBA programs, and this defied the early logic of the programs. Early on, it was thought that students to these programs would gravitate to the brand value of a program because after all, they weren’t bound by geography anymore. Yet, the vast majority of students in these programs live within a 150-mile radius of the school, so they tend to go all over, not just the big brand schools. Branding has still a big impact on your career and on your resume MBA, and even the quality of the program, frankly.

[00:15:32.850] – John

But many applicants and students find that if we’re going to stay in a rough area or so, the alumni network in that area helps them just fine with the job market in their future career prospects. Now, Maria, I wonder what you think the downside of an online MBA is. Who is an ideal candidate for an online MBA, and who should really be thinking about a full-time residential program?

[00:15:59.860] – Maria

I think the ideal participant in an online MBA program is someone who is already in a job that they really, really like, and they are worried, perhaps rightfully so, about the impact of taking two years off, one or two years off from that job and then trying to get back into that same job later on. If someone’s working at a company, they have a job, a function that they enjoy, they like their employer, I think the online MBA can be great because that way you can It’s almost like you get a two for one special in the sense that you can continue to get that work experience and grow in your day job, but then you’re adding that turbo boost of the MBA education at the same time. Even though a lot of these participants did say that they were able to change industries or change functions as a result, if you’re already enjoying what you’re doing and you’ve got a job that is giving you opportunities for growth also during the day, then you’re having two opportunities to grow yourself at the same time. I think that that’s the ideal situation. I think someone for whom it’s not as good of an opportunity as perhaps someone who needs to do a lot more exploration in terms of their career interests.

[00:17:18.930] – Maria

One of the benefits of being in a residential program is that you are surrounded by other people who come from all sorts of backgrounds, every industry you can imagine, every country you can imagine. If you are in a more exploratory phase in your career, probably earlier in your career, I would suspect, then the in-person program can be a great way to… There are all these serendipitous moments. You might be standing in line at the cafeteria and you start talking to someone who works in real estate and you’re thinking, I’ve never even thought about real estate. Let’s keep talking. If you want to be surrounded by people in person and really bounce ideas off of them and use that to try to make a pretty major pivot, then I would still choose the in person for those people. But what this survey is showing is that these online programs are… I suspect that what’s happened is that maybe the online programs have heard the concerns from prospective students about, Well, I’m a little bit worried that I won’t get to change careers. I’m a little bit worried that I won’t get to build strong bonds with my classmates.

[00:18:27.490] – Maria

I can’t help but wonder if part of why we’re seeing these strong results now is because I’m guessing that over the past few years, a lot of these programs have perhaps taken that feedback to heart and have started asking themselves, Okay, so how do we start implementing services or experiences so that our online students can, in fact, get to know each other well. I think it’s great. The outcomes, again, are stunning in a really good way. This is fantastic because it just opens up an opportunity to get this education for folks who otherwise would not be able to, perhaps logistically. This is fantastic.

[00:19:05.040] – John

The other thing is a full-time MBA program is a funnel into certain jobs that are otherwise not available to you. I’m primarily thinking things like investment banking and consulting. These firms want a tryout. They want to see you during the internship before they actually pull a trigger and say, Yeah, we’re going to offer you a job. Those Pivoting into those kinds of industries from an online MBA are going to be much more difficult unless you’re already in that industry. That’s another consideration. Caroline, you work exclusively with people who want to get into the most elite full-time MBA programs in the world. What would you say is the downside of going for an online MBA?

[00:19:54.120] – Caroline

Yeah, I agree that I think the career opportunities are going to be different, as you say, on a full-time program, you get so much exposure to different recruiters and the ability to network with them, to learn about those different career paths, and to get in front of those employers and in many cases, get interviews. So it does open doors that I think are otherwise much more difficult to open if you’re not on one of those top-tier full-time programs. So I think that’s one of the key differences. And I think also, as Maria said, there’s a lot to be said for being in an immersive environment alongside other people in that very intense community and that long period of time where you can get to know people from such an incredible variety of different backgrounds and really build very, very strong relationships that last a lifetime. So I would imagine that graduates from full-time programs probably have more extensive and deeper relationships than graduates from online programs. But nevertheless, as we’ve said, not everybody has the opportunity and the ability to take one or two years out of their career to step away from work. And so if you don’t have that opportunity, if you have…

[00:21:19.550] – Caroline

Many people have family responsibilities, and then they just need to keep earning that salary, or some people are just too risk averse, and are nervous about taking that step away And so for those people, depending on their career goals, I think this is a great option.

[00:21:36.970] – John

True. And for age, age is a factor. I mean, most elite full-time programs are looking for people between the ages of probably 26, 27 to 30. There are some outliers on either side, but basically, that’s the sweet spot. In an online MBA program, the schools are much more welcoming of people who are much older and in some cases even younger. I’ll give you a good example. This morning, I got an email from someone who wants to get an MBA but has 18 years of work experience in an interesting industry. He’s in his 40s, and he’s wondering what his options are. Well, online MBA programs would be a good option for him. The other important issue here, though, is one online MBA program is not equal to another. These programs differ greatly based on everything from branding to price to the curriculum to how high-bred they are to how committed the faculty are to whether or not the full-time tenure faculty teach them or if the school is just offering an online program on the cheap with a bunch of adjuncts. You really need to look at what you want and what you get. Typically, the higher priced programs will offer much more career support and one-on-one coaching.

[00:23:04.390] – John

They will have on a weekly basis, live internet classes. They will have the opportunity for immersions, both domestic and global. They’ll also have the opportunity to go to campus for a couple of weekends for classes, for networking, for drills. Indiana Kelly, for example, in their program, the faculty actually devise a live case study that’s brand new every year just for the online MBA students. The protagonists of the organization that agrees to be studied and is facing a challenge that students are asked to confront are there and you present to them. That happens every single year. There are lots of bells and whistles that are attached to some, and then some are completely no frills, 100% online. They may not even have live Internet classes. You really need to look at this because the differences among these programs can be very, very significant. Typically, if you go with a big brand school like an Indiana Kelly in Michigan, Washington, a Rice, a USC, a Carnegie Mellon, they’re going to send their best faculty into the program. They’re going to have the best career support, and it’s just going to be a super quality program. Now, there are a couple of programs on this that are not included in the ranking that I just want to talk a little bit about because they offer really quality education.

[00:24:47.060] – John

They refuse to be ranked, and they are really disruptively priced. That would be Boston University’s Questrom School, which has an online MBA program that’s priced at under $25,000. There are no electives in that program. Every course is mandatory, and it’s a theme-based program over a couple of years. But for the price tag in Boston University’s great brand and the quality of the teaching and the curriculum and the thought that went into it, it’s a bargain. The other big bargain of the Guise College of Business, IMBA at University of Illinois, which is probably the single largest quality online MBA program There are other online MBA programs out there that actually have higher enrollments, but really, I’ll just put it out here, they’re garbage. Guise is a terrific program taught by tenure track faculty who are all in and all engaged. There is an annual get together on the University of Illinois campus where hundreds of students come. The student enrollment is very diverse from all over the world. You have brand name companies who are sending their people to this program from Deloitte to Microsoft, Apple, and Google. It’s just a really great program. It’s also priced below $25,000.

[00:26:16.910] – John

Now, those two programs refuse to be ranked, so they’re not on this list. But for people who don’t want a lot of in-person activity, for people who don’t need a lot of career support, these are two really good options. Christie, any last words on how to use the ranking to make the perfect match?

[00:26:40.390] – Christie

Yeah, I think that all your points are very good about this is just an exercise that we do. It is a data-driven exercise, but when you’re talking about the top of the ranking, slicing that baloney, it doesn’t mean as much as a number one or a number 2 or number three. What you really need to do is, I think that what’s unique about this ranking and exercise is we put as much data out there as we can so that you can sift through it throughout this next two weeks, we’re going to be unveiling stories that looks at some of the admissions standards at each of these schools. What does it take to get into a UT of Dallas or a University of Michigan in terms of undergrad GPA A, acceptance rate, your test scores, what schools are now test optional. And so the best thing to do is to come back and we’ll go through all those support stories so that you can really get a feel for what fits you. The number one school on this list might not be the program that is what you are particularly looking for.

[00:27:56.510] – John

Yeah, that’s really true. So there you I have it. Look, for those who might be skeptical still of online education, here’s what you need to know. The technology has improved so greatly that this is really effective education. It’s serious, it’s rigorous, it’s done well. Many of the online programs have imported into them key elements of their residential program so that it’s as close as you can get to an in-person experience and yet be part-time and do it from your home, from your hotel room, even from an airplane, if you’re a road warrior. The tuition rates are more reasonable and you don’t have the opportunity cost. There are enough major brand players in this market, including some who don’t really fulfill an online MBA ranking. I’m talking about NYU Eastern, UC Berkeley Haas, and Wharton’s Executive MBA program, all of whom now have online cohorts. Now, in each of these examples, there are more substantial in-person elements to those three, but those are three other options as well. I think the existence of a lot of the major business schools in the world in this market has helped to legitimize it and bring great credibility to the effects and the impact of online education.

[00:29:39.070] – John

There you have it, our little review of online MBAs. Check out our ranking by Christie, the best online MBA programs in US for 2025. Even more importantly, check out all the survey results. We tried to make the data as transparent as possible so you can evaluate it for yourself. You can toss out what you don’t believe or let it confirm what you do believe, but we find it incredibly useful. So thanks for joining us. This is John Byrne with Poets and Quants with my co-host, Caroline Diarte Edwards and Maria Wich-Vila. See you next time.